Pope Francis is a guest on Cliché, Lorenzo Buccella’s cultural magazine broadcast on Swiss Radio and Television (RSI), in an episode dedicated to white (Wednesday 20 March), the color of good, of light, but on which errors and dirt stand out more. Among the many filths, there is war: the conflict in Ukraine and that in Palestine, on which the pontiff spoke to our microphones:
In Ukraine, there are those who ask for the courage of surrender, of the white flag. But others say that this would legitimize the strongest. What do you think?
“It’s an interpretation. But I believe that those who see the situation, those who think about the people, and those who have the courage to raise the white flag and to negotiate are stronger. And today it can be negotiated with the help of international powers. The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated and that things are not going well, you need to have the courage to negotiate. You are ashamed, but with how many deaths will it end? Negotiate in time, and look for some country to act as a mediator. Today, for example in the war in Ukraine, there are many who want to act as mediators. Turkey offered itself for this. And other. Don’t be ashamed to negotiate before things get worse.”
Have you also offered to negotiate?
“I’m here, period. I sent a letter to the Jews of Israel to reflect on this situation. Negotiation is never a surrender. It is the courage not to lead the country to suicide. The Ukrainians, with the history that they have, poor things, the Ukrainians at Stalin’s time, how much they suffered…”.
“What is happening between Israel and Palestine is a war. And war is made by two, not one. The irresponsible ones are these two who wage war”
— Pope frances
How to find a compass to orient yourself on what is happening between Israel and Palestine?
“We have to move forward. Every day at seven in the evening I call the parish of Gaza. Six hundred people live there and tell what they see: it’s a war. And war is made by two, not one. The irresponsible ones are these two who wage war. Then there is not only military war, there is the “guerrilla war”, so to speak, of Hamas for example, a movement that is not an army. It’s a bad thing.”
The dove is the symbol of peace, it is the signal that the war is over. But then there is the post-war period, which in any case is another moment in which all these wounds must be mended…
“There is an image that always comes to me. On the occasion of a commemoration, I had to speak about peace and free two doves. The first time I did it, a crow present in St. Peter’s Square immediately got up, took the dove, and took it away. This is a bit hard what happens with war. Many innocent people cannot grow up, many children have no future. Ukrainian children often come here to greet me, they come from the war. None of them smile, they don’t know how to smile. He’s a child who doesn’t know how to smile, it seems like he has no future. Let’s think about these things, please. War is always a defeat, a human defeat, not a geographical one.”
“How does a war end? With deaths, destruction, children without parents.” — Pope francesco
How do the powerful of the earth respond to you when you ask them for peace?
“There are those who say, it’s true but we have to defend ourselves… And then you realize that they have plane factories to bomb others. Defend yourself, not destroy. How does a war end? With deaths, destruction, and children without parents. There is always some geographical or historical situation that causes a war… It can be a war that seems right for practical reasons. But behind a war, there is the arms industry, and that means money.”
What relationship does a Pope have with ‘the error’?
“It’s strong, because the more power a person has, he runs the risk of not understanding the slips he makes. It is important to have a self-critical relationship with your own mistakes, with your own mistakes. When a person feels confident in himself because he has power, because he knows how to move in the world of work, of finances, he is tempted to forget that one day he will be begging, begging for youth, begging for health, begging for life… it’s a bit of a temptation of omnipotence. And this omnipotence is not white. We all need to be mature in our dealings with the mistakes we make because we are all sinners.”
